Fending Off Feast or Famine ft. Shweta (s1 E7)
Feast and famine is something every freelancer goes through, and Shweta has been through it twice since she began her full-time freelance journey in 2012.
The B2B tech writer joins Liam to talk through what two extended famine cycles looked like from the inside: the first during the pandemic, the second just last year.
They get into the financial systems that got her through, the shame of dipping into savings at a stage of career when you feel like you should know better, and what it really takes to build a freelance business that can absorb a hit.
Find Shweta on LinkedIn and Substack—she offers three free 30-minute calls for anyone who wants to pick her brain on freelancing or writing.
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Episode Transcript
Liam: Last week I had a post go viral on LinkedIn, which doesn't happen that much these days since they changed the algorithm. The post really resonated with people and it was one that I did not expect to go viral because I wrote it in about five minutes and it was extremely emotionally charged.
In fact, if I had actually remembered, I probably would've unscheduled this post before it went live, after some reflection. But apparently raw emotion is what works on LinkedIn these days. The post itself was about the challenges of being a single freelancer. I have no partner, no kids or anything like that.
I'm a totally single solo entrepreneur, and there is a certain amount of difficulty that comes with that, especially if you are like me living in the United States where it's very hard to come by quality healthcare unless you can get it through a partner or a full-time job. But beyond that, there are other things, the lack of a financial safety net, if things go wrong that a lot of couple people have .
The post blew up, and I had a lot of other single freelancers commenting about how they felt seen and heard, and how this was a topic that needed to be talked about more often. And I was also reminded by a number of people in the comments that the problem of financial insecurity for freelancers, also exists for freelancers who are in partnerships.
And often it can complicate relationships and partnerships because of the insecurity and difficulty that a lot of freelancers have when trying to make this career work for them. Today's guest is actually one of those people who chimed in on those comments, though I've known Shweta for a lot longer than that.
She and I have kind of grown up together as freelancers over the last few years. We met very early on via LinkedIn, and when I talked about wanting to start this podcast, I was looking for someone who could speak to one of the biggest issues that we have as freelancers, which is that financial insecurity often referred to as feast and famine,
meaning that in some months or years you might have a lot of income as a freelancer and other months it might be hard to come by, and the up and down rollercoaster of that cycle is what drives a lot of freelancers to give up and go back to full-time work. That's obviously not what I'm here to encourage you to do.
I'm here to show you that there are ways to overcome the feast and famine cycle. Especially if you listen and learn from people who have been there and done that. Shweta volunteered to share her story of overcoming two famine cycles over the last few years, and how she adjusted her business and her spending habits and a whole bunch of other things to make sure that that didn't happen again.
And I'm going to bring you that conversation as this week's episode of the Freelance Success Podcast.
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Hi, Shweta. How are you?
Shweta: Yeah, hi. I'm good. Thank you for inviting me on the podcast.
Liam: I'm so glad to have you because you and I have actually been connected for a very long time now. I think pretty early on in my freelance career.
You and I connected on LinkedIn a million years ago. I don't even remember really. But I know we've interacted a bunch. You are, have joined Freelance Success. You're on my mailing list. We see each other daily, I feel like on LinkedIn. So it's really nice to have you here. And the reason I have you here is because we're going to be talking about feast and famine.
And actually I'm so glad that was the topic you suggested because I started this podcast. The first episode is just me talking about. Fear and how fear is a part of freelancing. That is a challenge to deal with, but also a necessary part of it. And I think, I don't know if you saw it, but recently in the Freelance Success Pod, in the Freelance Success Forum, I asked a question.
I said, what's the scariest part of freelancing? And I think most people said the feast or famine and these are people who have been doing freelancing for a long time. So we're going to get into all of that. But before we do. How about you introduce yourself to us in your own words, let us know who you are and what you do.
Shweta: Okay? So if I have to introduce myself in, one word, one line. So writer, okay? Of course I do different types of writing fiction, nonfiction, B2B that is there. But I have also been a teacher. So four years I was teaching computer science. And They say once a teacher, always a teacher.
So in my writing also I prefer taking some complex topics and I'm a basically B2B tech writer. I take complex topics. And I really, I'll translate it to the level that the reader or the whoever the target audience is, they would do. So that is specifically my expertise. So take a complex topic and translate that into easy to read stuff.
And that could be blogs, that could be case studies, that could be white papers, that could be product manuals. Anything you give me. And I would do that. So that's it about me. A writer, basically.
Liam: Yeah. It's funny because the word writer is such a, it can mean a million different things, and for some of us, including you, and I think we'll get into this, it also does mean several different things for you, right?
Like when I tell people I'm a writer. It means, yeah, I'm writing a memoir. I'm also writing blogs every week. I'm also writing social media, like it's not one thing. So
Shweta: All kinds of things. Yeah.
Liam: Yeah. And what interested me, so you have, how long have you been freelancing? When did you start?
Shweta: 2012 June, July. So we are like 13, 14 years. It has been 13 years.
Liam: Wow. Okay. Yeah. That was when I first started freelancing on the side. But have you been full-time freelancing that whole time?
Shweta: Yeah. This is full-time freelancing. Before that I was teaching and before that I was a writer, full-time writer.
So I've done it all but when I say freelance, this 2012, when I say that is full-time freelancing. So actually my second daughter was born and then at that time I was a teacher and then I realized that no, I just wanted to stay at home as a mom And I did a bit of software development for some local businesses, but that was taking too much of effort and that just didn't go well with being a mother.
And writing is something I've always done. In fact, my first job was as an editor. Yeah. So then I just shifted to writing and then, and never looked back from there. I just didn't need to move on from that.
Liam: I love that. I yeah, I would say. I know a lot of people get into it that way, especially moms.
I find that there's a lot of people, I think in the freelance success community who they just found themselves at home with the kids. They didn't want to leave the kids alone at home, so they started writing and you already have the talent. But that is a very, I comparatively to a lot of the people that are out there right now, that's a very long career in freelancing, I think.
A lot of people started maybe closer to the pandemic. Or I started just before I started full time freelancing just before the pandemic. A lot of people started just after. So you have a lot of time building and running your own career. And I know you just said that you never looked back, but.
I know what we are here to talk about today is the feast and famine. In your intro to me, when we were first talking about what to discuss, you mentioned that you had two periods of famine. In the last six years.
Liam: So I'm curious to know what happened then. Can you tell me a little bit about maybe the, let's start with the first one.
So what happened at that time? Because you had already been freelancing for some time, is that right?
Shweta: Yeah, five. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. 2012. And the first that we call was during the pandemic actually. So by that time, but I had already been freelancing for five, six years. So what happened was that when I started freelancing, so in a way I stumbled upon it because one of my past employers, they reached out to me and I was working I think I worked for them.
For a year full-time when I was working full-time as a writer. That is what I was doing course curriculum for them. And so they reached out to me and they said that, okay, so this is a computer course and we want you to do this. So I was like, okay, why not? When somebody who already knows your credentials comes back to you, then you feel more comfort, comfortable, and there was something I was already doing, so I did not need to learn new things.
Or a new style or nothing. New about the client. So I said yes. And That was around the beginning of 2014. And for the next six months, I was working with them and freelancing At that point of time, I had no idea that okay. What you should do as a freelancer, okay. And plus, I must tell you that I stay in a very small city right now.
Okay? At that point of time itself, I was, the. Internet connection and local community were both essentially non-existent. Okay? So internet connection was barely enough for me to, communicate with my client. Thankfully, the topic that we were writing on that I have a computer science background, so that was a topic I was writing about.
So I did not need the help of internet too much to research. Why I'm telling you this is I never thought that, okay, I should have another client. And then my baby was also very small, so I don't think I was working more than maybe 20 hours a week. So not more than that, 50 to 20 hours a week, and that was, my hands were full.
But then when that project finished, then you can see that I actually got into the grind of freelancing, which is. Pitching, getting clients, managing your finances, and, delivering so that you get repeat work. So that is so I think around 2015, that was the cycle I got into. And in the next two, three years I had some amazing clients definitely.
But the thing was that most of them were people I had worked with when I was working full-time. As content. I was working with them. And but we had, like when I, after marriage we moved ba I moved back here. It was like, we just were not in touch. But then I think it was 2014 or 13 when I got on LinkedIn.
Then I connected with lots of people. So those were the past people I had my old colleagues, they came back to me and they were like, okay, will you work with us? One of my past colleagues, so he had started a new company, so he said that, no shut up. I know you, I know the way you write. I know your work ethics.
You are going to be working. Whatever time you can devote to writing, you are devoting it. So I was like, but as a freelancer that is, scary for me.
Shweta: So he was like no let's start with this and I'll see if you get something better then we'll do. So I think for the next two years I was working only for them.
So it was more or less like a job, but it was on freelancing terms. So I had my independence. I could work whenever I want. But when that ended, and I think that was 2018, and then I realized that I just now needed to up my skills. Up my rates. So that was a time I realized that, okay, I need to up my rates.
And what happened that I, at that point of time, I took lots, of course, I talked to lots of people, joined a few communities, and generally the writing skill part was there. And then the freelancing skill. See, those are two different things. Writing is my core skill.
But as a freelancer, I have to look at my writing as my business, my solo business.
And that was the time, 2018 19. When I started looking at it like that, I reached out to people, I upped my rates, and just at the beginning of the pandemic. I was in a transition phase of my career that I let go of all my past clients who were paying very low, and I got two or three high paying clients and I was like, okay, so I have arrived.
You know that feeling that yes, I have doubled my rates and people are willing to pay for that. And I had two, three really nice lines and. The work that I was doing with them. It was a white paper. It was working with the senior executives for C-suite executives for their messaging, brand messaging and all that stuff.
So it was really interesting. Steph and I really started enjoying, and then the pandemic struck.
And all work, I don't need to tell you what happened, right? So after that, I think for completely one and a half years, I had no work. And by the time pandemic ended in 20, like for India it ended around I think 2019.
April or May was like, it just started April and May was the peak, and then it just started going down by the time we were like in a wide doubt financially, right? So like my husband also has his own business and I'm a partner in that also. So all that and now you can understand that if we had a training institute, so it was all one to one person, we were dealing with people, so it all just shut down.
And. I think I can say the worst part was that we had our employees who depended on us.
So it was like that rather paying our own bills. We were paying to them because where would they go that when you're also the employer and you have that feeling. So I have these two personas.
One I am working on my own, but then I'm a partner with my husband also, so I have to take care of that. So I think around, 2019, August or September, I was like, we were completely wiped out. Not a penny in the, our bank account. And we just didn't know. We just barely meeting the school expenses.
And since we stay in a multi-generational home, so that support system was there. We stay in a city where expenses are very less because it's a tier three city. So that helped, but then still you'd need some incoming and all my husband's business. That they were not paying because no work was being done.
So his income, obviously it took a beating like okay. A few businesses there had to close down also. At that point of time I was like cold pitching and I had also contracted COVID and I was very recently and everything. But then we responsibility are there. So I think I was at a level where in a day I was sending 30 cold pitches, I would be exhausted.
Yes. A day. A day? Yes. Wow. A day.
Shweta: Yeah, because I, that was the only thing I could think of. See with my expertise, local level, I could not work anywhere here. Teaching I did not want to go back to. And anyways, teaching was, at that point of time, very different. They were not obviously recruiting people, so I was sending 30 pitches a day.
And left, everybody I was reaching out to, but then everybody was in a bad state, they just wouldn't hand me work. But then I was lucky and I started working for, I think I sent a pitch and, two, three months later it just came back. I just, but the thing is I kept following up, so in that meantime, I had realized that following up was important.
So I just now when I was sending those 30 pitches, so I think out of them just five or seven where those that I just wanted to pitch — the gigs I really wanted. I would follow up on those two or three times. I would follow up and then one of them just came back and that was Hops Advisor.
So I think that we know all of us we know that Scandal, great Marketplace, post Marketplace scandal, but it was a lifesaver for me at that point of time, and they just started. And so we reached out to me, the editor and I started working for them. So that was my first break, and I think within a couple of months, then I got two more clients.
So that for me, cycle of one and a half years, that came to an end because I now, I had two or three clients that were regular. So that was about, I think I spoke a lot.
Liam: No. It's interest, because so much of what you said is I think some of the common mistakes you made at the beginning are becoming too reliant on one client — it sounds so appealing, doesn't it? To only have one client to worry about and they pay your bills every month, but it's a huge risk. And then, COVID, it's like everybody had a different experience at COVID, but nobody's world stayed the same. Everybody went through some sort of, if you were freelancing already, you business went through a change.
If you hadn't started, that might've been the change that made you start freelancing. And. Also this the way the up and down of it all is what strikes me. Because you said a couple times how exhausting it all was. Especially I can imagine sending 30 cold pitches a day. It makes me feel sick to my stomach just thinking about it.
But yeah, between these two moments where you were so the fir was the first. Time was in the, in that 2020 period. Yeah. Yeah,
Shweta: yeah.
Liam: Okay. And actually sounds like already by that time you had started to make the changes that one needs to make in their business. What you said about treating your business like a business.
I think I'm going to have to get that tattooed on my forehead at some point. Because. It is like the number one thing that sets people apart, and the people that give up on freelancing, in my opinion, are the ones who don't get that, that they just continue to scramble around. But then you had this catastrophic thing happen that was completely out of your control and it happened to your husband too.
One of you know I'm single, so I'm always like, man, sometimes I wish I had a partner so I could rely on their income. It's a good reminder that's not always the case, even if you are married.
Shweta: In fact, it was taking away, yeah, it was taking away from me because that part of my work or business you can see is where people are relying on me.
And and that experience has been so scary that so many times I have had opportunity to, have some freelancers outsource, sort of small agency, but I'm like, gosh, I have experienced this once. I do not want to be responsible for someone else. That reason, at least still now, I have not had that, strength, that courage I haven't had.
Liam: Yeah. What did you change after that moment in your business?
Shweta: Okay. Yeah. So I think the one thing that I changed was financial discipline because before that I see I come from a service class background. Both my parents were working. So when you are working, working government jobs, so when you are working, so every month the paycheck comes and okay, this much will come.
And then you have different buckets. Okay, these expenses, you meet it. In a, so the business needs a very different financial mindset first and then their discipline. And I was of course never trained in that. So I needed to change that. After that COVID for me, I realized that I need, I do not want to be in that.
Position again, never in my life. So that I was very clear about. So I started reading a lot. I started reading books. I reached out to people, on LinkedIn and otherwise also, now I'm not very, comfortable on social media. So LinkedIn is the only platform that I'm active and it has solve my focus still now.
I need people to reach out to. And they have helped me, like really with all their advice and suggestions. So I started reading books. I read lots of blogs also then discuss with people.
Liam: Financial.
Shweta: Financial and Yeah, financial. Yeah. Yeah. Financial. Financial. Co a couple of writers.
And then I just started with that age old book. I think it was published in 1920s or so. What's that name? I just. The richest man of Babylon.
Liam: Oh,
Shweta: okay. So when I read that, I realized that all the modern books. Take from there. Okay. The basic concepts. Okay, so after that, I have been gifting that book to all my daughters.
My other daughters, she's in college now, but all her friends, when they turned 18, I said, okay, you take that book.
Liam: Okay. I,
Shweta: I haven't read it.
Liam: I have to go buy a copy.
Shweta: Oh, you must, it's in the form of favor and it is amazing. And I have translated it in practice as much as I can. And I'll tell you, it really works.
And everywhere you read, you will, you'll realize that what people talk about is taken from there. They take it, package it in their own way, and then, oh, they just, okay, so the basic fundamentals. So I started reading books. Now I'm not a very visual sort of person. I prefer reading books rather than watching videos.
But I watch videos also. And I talk to people, I talk to people in finance. We have lots of people in my family who are in banking, so I just they're all very young to me and I was like, please help me. So I want to understand how things are done, what are the instruments and everything. And then I started implementing them.
So there was this one book, I think it is a, by an Indian author, Monica, let's Talk Money. So I started implementing her system. If you want, I can go into that, but let's talk about the pandemic work. So basically what she talks about and from other books. So I just combined that knowledge and basically the first thing that we have to do is what I did was that I thought that, okay, this is my business, so I need to invest back in my business.
I need to pay myself. And since I'm on my own and the clients can go away anytime that I had experienced in the past. And so I also need to build a like a nest some backup money that I should have. I must always have. So these are three, four things that I started doing. And I never thought thought of them in, exact terms. I always thought of percentage of my income, but this percent of my income I put in my bank account. This will go for my investing back in the business. So when you think of what happens, people think that, okay, $500, I invest $500, I keep a aside for hard times. And then it, what happens is, in a month freelancing it can happen.
You're earning just 2000 and your monthly expenses are 1500. Then what do you do? So that is why I always think of these things in terms of percentage. So I think that, okay, 10%, so whatever I'm earning, that is the minimum amount I'll put aside. If I earn more, then I will see what I do. I'll not spend it.
I will just first build that nest egg. So
Liam: was it like this
Shweta: is something that,
Liam: would you do it then basically every time you received. A payment, you would divide that individual payment up into the different buckets. Yeah. This is for marketing, this is for my expenses. Yeah. And this is for daily
Shweta: Exactly.
Liam: Living.
Liam: That's very clever. And yeah, because I, one thing I recommend a freelance answers is like, here in America you pay about 30, 35% tax as a freelancer. And I'm like, you need to grab that money. The second. That it hits your bank account. Yes. because if you don't put it away from yourself, trust me, it will, one of those moments will come when you're like, I've got to get this.
And I like what you said about, $500, maybe it's only a hundred dollars one month and $500 the next month, but. Getting it. Anything that you can do to have a little bit of a cushion and grow a cushion is so key. And I think a lot of freelancers are out there running around without a cushion at all.
Shweta: Yeah. That is most important. So what I aim for is six to nine months of basic expenses. Okay. Food living. I don't have to pay rent and all because they stay with my father-in-law. So we all stay together and it's a long lease house so we don't have to pay rent. So that is there. But if you have rent, electricity, basic food you have kids.
So education, so these are the fundamental expenses. And of course there will be some business expenses that you have to we have to give subscriptions so we part of some community, whatever we have you have to have. Six to nine months of expenses you should have saved away. And once you do that, only then you should think of something else.
That has been my mantra. And when we come back, come to my second famine cycle. So that was the one thing that I that just saved me because I think I went 6, 7, 8 months without any client. Okay. So that was the reason. When we talk about it, I'll tell you why it was Wow. When,
Liam: what was that time period?
Shweta: 2024 July, 2024 to February of 2025.
Liam: Wow. So recently.
Shweta: Very recently, and that is why I have started out because see, I had the system in place. So until, unless you test it out, God forbid, nobody should need to test it. But I tested it and it helped me and so that is why I started talking about it very recently because I have tested that.
Yes, it really works. I have seen it.
Liam: So what happened in 2024 that made that change?
Shweta: Okay. So like I said that, okay, I have my freelancing business, my solo business, plus I'm also partner with my husband and my businesses. So we have food, we are into food and beverages, so we have just restaurants.
And there was this and my husband wanted to go for resorts. And that was in investment. A big, huge investment. And around April of 2024, we started looking at it, looking at properties that we could invest in and actually take so, and till then my writing business was going on very smoothly.
And I had, I think three very long-term clients I had been working with past two years. And and one of them was folks advisor, and it shut down suddenly. So that was, I think at that point of time, it was almost 40 to 50% of mine because starting March and April I had, started focusing on my food and bus which is food business with my husband.
So that part was like, so now if somebody takes away 50% of your chunk, then it just, then my other two clients that were regular. So they were like they give work every, three, four month. And one of them was like, every alternate month they have because they're very highly technical.
They don't have that much of work for me, but I do because they pay good. If I, if they give, they gave one project. I get every, even six months. So with any other client, I'll work whole year. I'll get paid the same amount. So obviously it works for me. So I think it was June when for advisor completely shut down.
So 50% gone. Then after that, the other two clients also my editor went on maternity leave, and so that was a pause. So she introduced me to other people and they said that, yeah, they'll give me projects because they do need freelance support. But then it did not came about. So I think, so suddenly what had happened that I was always looking for higher playing clients, that mindset was already there.
But when suddenly three of your clients shut down and two other clients, they just shut shop. Because I work mostly with startups. That is my, expertise as well as comfort zone because I myself run my own businesses, so I understand the mindset. So I work with founders and very small businesses.
So two of them shut off. So it was like suddenly if I'm earning like $1,000. So the, it just came down to. 200 or a hundred dollars, depending upon what other project. So obviously I, again, started into cold pitching, but the other project was taking so much of my time and investment that it was like I was not able to the devote my time to pitching, getting clients.
And then, so I just had to sit down and I had to just consider what do I do? So do I dip into my kitty and utilize that or but. Then I thought that, okay, let me do it like 50 50, I'll be looking for clients also, and I'll also be dipping into my kitty for my expenses. And I think due to AI and also past one or two years have been difficult for writers.
So I was not getting clients. And plus my Ben benchmark was also a bit on the higher side. So I did not want to, again, get back into the rut of a job that paid on the lower side because somehow that, messes up with your mindset.
Liam: It feels like
Shweta: swaying
Liam: backwards. Yeah.
Shweta: Yeah, exactly.
So I was more cho more choosy about the types of clients I was working with. So past three years it was working fine, but suddenly it just stopped working. So I was again, pitching everything. I was getting, I enrolled into a few communities to, I even thought of getting into content marketing.
I was doing like I said, I do work with founders and startups, you cannot just help being a writer. And when you are in a startup environment, you take on multiple roles. So content marketing consultancy was something I was already doing with founders. But it was not offered as a service. So I started doing, I started, I repackaged my services.
But then somehow it happened that for the next seven, eight months, I had no new clients. Just one and that was that was pathetic. The pay was also pathetic. I just took it because I also did not want to be, not doing anything. Because then again, that starts playing with your mindset.
You feel that you're not doing anything. It uses that negative, you spiral. Yeah. So that was the second for me. And from March it just picked up. I got one client, two clients, three clients. I don't know. Somehow I feel, I've always felt that, when you get one client, then other clients will also come.
Shweta: And when one client goes
Liam: yes, you lose all of them. I was just going to say that. It's it is crazy. There are, I believe there are forces at play here that we cannot see when it comes to getting clients, losing clients. I also think there's like a monthly rhythm to it as well. Like I always have.
A slow summer, I don't know why, but for me, June, July, August are really slow. I have talked to people in my own business or my own industry who say that's a really busy time for them. It doesn't seem to have any rhyme or reason to it. And that's one of the things that's so scary about feast and famine is that, you have no idea, ID, you could do everything, right?
You could have a marketing machine going, you could have client, multiple clients in revenue streams, and then. For no particular reason, three of them could, the economy could shift three, three clients could just close up shop. It's really hard to predict, which is why it's so valuable to have that nest egg.
I guess my question is, so I also had a nest egg. I had a similar experience this year. It was a little different in that I intentionally took some time off. In January, February, March, the first quarter of this year. because I'm working on a memoir and I decided I was going to take some time off and then I took the time off, which was great.
But then it took me longer than expected to get more clients back into my books. And the first, I expected to just come back and pick up everything where I left off, but I didn't. So I had a bit of a moment. And there came that moment when I was like, I've cut a dip into my nest egg and I really don't want to because my nest egg is like in an account where it's making more money.
And I resisted too long and actually ended up racking up a little bit of debt instead, which is fortunately now taken care of. But it was a silly financial move. I don't know about you, but do you ever feel that way? Like when you had to dip into your savings to help yourself out?
How did that feel to you? Because to me it was like this huge moment of guilt and shame that I had to get over.
Shweta: Yeah. More of a shame, not guilt. It's my money I can spend, but more of a shame that it should not have happened at my stage of career when I have so much of experience and this should not happen.
Yes, definitely that shame was there and this has happened at a very wrong time for me because my daughter was in grade 12 and she was set to go to college. So just you can imagine the expenses. Exactly. So I had everything savings and for her, everything was there. But still that monthly income stability has to be there so that, you feel good about it and, okay. I had everything for a college step away. And of course, at the end of the day it just, it did help. But still, yeah, that guilt and shame was there that, yeah, I have not been able to, sometimes I would question myself, okay, maybe I was on marketing enough because I'm very poor at marketing.
Most of my best clients have come through inbound on LinkedIn. I don't even post that much. My posts get very few impressions, but still my best clients have been inbound LinkedIn. So I just keep posting, even if it, I get just one impressions Something works, I'm just not sure what.
I don't know what works. So I just keep the machinery running. Was my marketing poor?, I should have marketed more. I don't network so much, I should have networked more. So there's so many questions when I had to dip into my saving savings. Yeah, that is, I think when you would understand that since you went through this so recently.
Liam: Yeah. It's funny, I hear you using the word should which actually I'm doing not to get too personal, but I'm in doing therapy right now. I'm doing cognitive behavioral therapy, and part of that is recognizing words that you use against yourself to prevent yourself from, just to hurt yourself really.
And I have latched onto the word should is my big tell word when I hear myself repeating, I should have done this, I should have done that. I should have done this. I know that I'm beating myself up for, I should have been born into a family where I, everyone was a millionaire. How far do you take it?
It is, you can't and with freelancing there's no set amount of work that you should do. Yeah. It's like there's some people who really are willing to and are crazy, in my opinion. Freelance 10 or 12 hours a day. And there was times when I've done that. But that's actually not,
Shweta: I've been narrated my life.
Yeah.
Liam: And so you can only do so much. And I think it's important for freelancers to remember that. It's not always in your control. It's not something you've done or did not do. And IE, even when I hear us both sharing our stories, I think we're both kind of rushing to explain, oh, this is why it happened.
So that people listening to this podcast don't think these two don't know what they're doing. It happens to the best we've been, we've both been in this game long enough to have to know that. We're good at what we do, we're successful at what we do. We're successful freelancers, that is the name of the podcast.
And even for us, it still happens. So the only way that you can actually avoid the feast and famine is to do exactly what you said, which is first, get a grip on, on your expenses. And I actually wanted to circle back to that because. Sometimes people ask me, when people come to me with a question of I'm running outta money and I don't know what to do, the first thing I say is do you know exactly how much you need each month to live comfortably?
Do you know the, do you have a figure in mind? And I think a lot of free answers don't have a number. That's where I'm like, that's the, that's step one. Because first you have to know, okay, this is how much I have to have. And then you can do the calculation that you just said, which is then multiply that figure by nine and I need to have this much set aside and then divide that by however many, how much you think you could set aside each month.
And you'll know how soon you'll have that. It's a matter of starting with what do I need that, and I think a lot of people skip that question. Oftentimes because life is unpredictable and you don't know exactly what you need every month to month, but you can make an educated guess. I'm just reflecting on all the things you said.
Do you feel what I'm saying though?
Shweta: Yeah, definitely. Like I agree. You've summarized I, I'm more like telling a story and you've summarized it very nicely. Yeah,
Liam: It's just, I hear this so often from people and it's I wish I could say that there was a way to make freelance, feast or famine end altogether.
But there's no way because life is,
Shweta: it's, yeah, it's something like life happens. That's freelancer life, and you have to be prepared. All you can do is you have to be prepared for it. Okay? You'll feel shame. You'll feel guilt. Fine, but then at least you're not getting into debt or you're not having to ask someone for this, or at least you're not skipping on your kids' fees.
So something that is very fundamental as a parent. There's no more sha nothing more shameful than not being able to pay your kids fees. So you might feel that, but when you have your savings, you're dipping into them or your basic fundamental expenses. So that might shift, has to be there.
You accept the moment we start accepting that feast and famine cycle will be there. It'll be there. So obviously, see now famine will also have lots of ca levels. So that first level famine is there. Suddenly two clients have gone. So maybe our income is like 50, 60% down. Okay. That is fine. So you take out a bit of amount from your savings and then you next month you're able to replenish it.
So that is fine. Give and take. Second level could be, the income is like actually drying up. So yeah, that would be there. But the moment we accept that, yes, this will keep coming because as freelancers we are already used to having fluctuating income. That is why we, I always, I have that my Excel sheet is there where I record the projected income for.
I'm sure you must also be having, so anybody who has done a bit of freelancing for even a couple of years, they know that. So that is something that everybody should start with, that you know, for next six months, this is what you're going to earn. And the moment you see the discrepancy in expenses and income, so you know that, okay, if I'm going to need more money in three months down the line, so maybe I should start doubling down on getting clients now because immediately I want a client, then I will not be able to get put systems in place except that at times for mean would occur.
And then take it from there. So then it should not be so difficult to expect.
Liam: Yeah. I often remind people that to get a client from. Hello, my name is Liam, to paying me. It's at least three months, usually more.
Shweta: That's minimum.
Liam: I have clients who I've had for years who take three or four months to pay their first, deposit.
So even when you have a full roster of clients, it may be that things can slow down and I think you're right. Having a projected income, that was something that was so key for me. I definitely want to link to your spreadsheet in the show notes, and for people who are members of Freelance success, we have one in our library as well.
And actually for me, being able to visualize it was so helpful. I don't know why. Maybe I'm a, I guess I must be a visual learner, but in my mind I would think, oh yeah, I'm going to need more money, at the end of the year. But then when you see a line graph and you see where you are today, and then you see that line graph going down in the near future, it changes.
At least for me, I was like, okay, now I can actually think. Like I can put a process on this income's going down in six months. That means marketing goes up. It's like balancing a scale. And once you figure that out, the feast and famine cycle becomes less crazy, in my opinion, and a little bit more manageable.
Shweta: Yeah. More manageable, less jarring. Okay. Because you have accepted it, so yeah. It makes sense.
Liam: Yeah. If you were one other thing I want to mention is we've been talking about this nest egg, right? As like a, an emergency fund, which it could definitely be, and I was just speaking with someone yesterday who's also going to be on the podcast about what happens when you.
Have to take emergency leave, and you don't have a plan for that, knock on with it. That never happens. But I actually want to end on a more positive note, which is that your nest egg also can be used for things that. You want to have that security dent in there, right? So that's six to nine months or whatever.
But once you go beyond that, the money can be used to take a vacation. Believe it or not, freelancers deserve to go on vacation, just like every other worker. You could do what I did would, I took a sabbatical to do some creative work. You could invest in a pet project with it, right?
You could go all out on Christmas or whatever holiday it is. You want to celebrate. You could, put it into your IRA if you're really crazy and wild, put it into your retirement. So I don't want to just emphasize that the nest egg is, it is valuable for those bad times. But freelancers should also give themselves gifts, for meeting and exceeding their goals.
Did have, is that something you've ever done? Have you ever
Shweta: Yeah, actually, yeah. What I do is so that's my process. So I have a couple of savings accounts. So one is the, where all the money comes in. So that is just one account where all the income comes. So I have a couple of things, accounts, and now when we talk of nest egg, that is I have divided into two, three parts.
So one is liquid money. So liquid as in immediately might say it doesn't pay anything like, returns or nothing. But the so that part is there. And the other part is obviously it is in some investment where that I can just liquidate in two or three days that is there. So once that part is there, so there is one another account where whatever extra money I feel, so I'll just shift it off.
And that is utilized for vacations. I want to splurge on myself, I'm entitled to do that. When I need retail therapy and everyone else in my family is no, you should not go. I'm like, no, I have money. I do. So that is that second account or, there is this really expensive course that I know will not help much, but I want to take it, just like that.
because I feel like, every time when we, like you are talking about that cognitive thing, so should, okay, I should do this, I should do this, I should do this. No, I want to do this, so I'll do this. So I should have the funds. For that. I just want to do that. Even if, maybe six months down the line I say, oh gosh, I should not have wasted that money, but that is come six months later.
Right now. I should have that flexibility to spend that amount. And of course time is there, but then money should also be there so that my second, I will not call it emergency fund, maybe slush fund you can call it. So I always have something there and when we go on vacation, okay, so we are booking and then I'm like, Hey, I have this extra amount.
Okay, so for one day or two nights, let's upgrade ourselves. So we are going to and then the everybody's, the family's also very happy. Okay. The kids are very happy. Oh, mama. Because of you, we are now staying in such a nice place. So that's, you feel good because we need to give them experience.
So this is something I have done once or twice, and that's why I'm sharing this and the amount of satisfaction that it gives. You feel good about it. So all that famine and shirts and everything, they just take back page because you know that you have also done something that you just wanted to do, not because you were supposed to do.
I hope it makes sense.
Liam: Yeah, it does. And when I'm just listening to you, I'm thinking about, we were talking about how you have to get into the mindset of treating your business like a business. You also have to get in the mindset of treating yourself like an employee and being a good boss to yourself.
Being the kind of boss where you think I love my boss. So the idea that, imagine, we both had full-time jobs, right? When I worked at my full-time job, if my company wanted me to go do some marketing for them. They put me in a hotel that was comfortable, right? Every once in a while they bought me a little treat.
They bought me food. That's how you treat your employees. You don't make them work to the bone and then never give them any benefit beyond their pay. That's a toxic work environment. You don't want to, how ironic to make a toxic work environment of one, and I'm guilty of doing it.
So being able to take these little breaks and have a little bit of, even just a hundred bucks to say, I'm going to go, just have an afternoon by myself. Go out to eat and buy something fun. Yeah.
Shweta: Perfect. Perfect. Yeah. Anything?
Liam: Great. Listen, I can't believe it. We've almost been talking for a full hour about feast and famine.
I guess I want to end by asking you, so you've now gone through two feast and famine cycles. We've both talked about. The fact that you can't actually escape feast or famine in, in the freelance lifestyle. Is there anything you're doing differently now, this year, next year to prepare for the inevitable shift in the future?
Shweta: Yeah, like I said, that marketing is my, I'm weak in that I don't like doing that, like right now, also I'm, I have bandwidth like just last week one of my clients is, like we just started this I making, there's no issues there. So I have time and I need one more client, but then I take ages, even putting on LinkedIn that I have time and I'm looking for, because I know that they will, but I don't do that.
So it takes me time. Marketing is my weak point. That is the change that I'm going to bring. It's very good. I'm saying right now there'll be lots of people listening to it. So I will hold, I'll treat them as my accountability part. Accountability partners that, okay, I have that pipeline, like lead pipeline.
I want it to be like more populated than it is right now, because, at any given point of time, I'm maybe talking to four or five people about potential projects. But out of which, maybe one or two will materialize in its own time, like we discussed, 3, 4, 5 months, maybe sometimes a year. Also, it takes, I want that to be more populated.
Maybe that leads pipeline, and that is my sole focus right now. And I think my 2026 would be about that because I want to move to the next level. Of my career and maybe pivot a bit, go more into consultancy or get more better clients. Because with AI things have changed.
Things have got more interesting also. So that pivot is needed. And for that pivot to happen, I want, I feel that having more leads in the pipeline, more people, I'm talking to, more people, I'm conversing with more communities I'm part of, I know that goes against my nature, but that is something I have to work on.
I've worked on so many things and brought myself, like you say, business. So I'm a one person business, so I have to work on myself. My business is me, so I have to work on myself. So that is, and that will definitely help me because then the leads pipeline is there. Then you don't have to wait for two months to get a new client, isn't it?
If my leads pipeline was more populated right now, so maybe I could've just. Reach out to more people and ask that, Hey, my, just suddenly my talent is free. So do you have something that you would want to give it to me? Yeah, so that is my focus.
Liam: I'm in a similar boat because I'm at that point now where my income looks great through the first few months of 2026, and then, something's got to change.
because I recently switched away from retainer work to project work, which has its own benefits, I think, but also the drawback is you have to keep finding work. But it keeps me on my toes. And yeah, I think what's interesting, you mentioned the word pivot. This is not the first time it's come up with people I've been talking to.
I think a lot of people are pivoting because the industry is, and by the industry digital jobs in general, which most freelancers have.
Shweta: Everything Yeah.
Liam: Is all changing and a lot of people are trying to pivot. So we are going to be doing a group workshop in the beginning of the year called The Pivot where we're going to get as many people onto.
Onto freelance success, who will want to pivot? We're going to go through the different steps that you need to take, marketing and messaging, branding and all that. So I hope you'll join for that because it sounds like perhaps you are going to be on the same journey as a lot of other people, myself included.
Pivoting this podcast is part of my own pivot, that can be part two. Maybe season two we'll talk about that. But this has been such a good conversation. If people want to get in touch with you, learn more about you, where can they go?
Shweta: LinkedIn is the one place.
Liam: Okay,
Shweta: so that's the social media channel I'm available at.
Liam: Okay.
Shweta: Then I have and the link is there in my header LinkedIn header. So topic I I offer three free 30 minute chat if they want to just pick my head on anything. Freelancing, writing, just in general. Yeah, so they can get in touch with me. But yeah, LinkedIn is the place to find me.
Liam: Okay. And we'll put you a link to your LinkedIn down below.
Shweta, thank you so much for joining me today. It's been such a delight chatting with you.
Shweta: Yeah, same here. I think I, I'm thankful to you to give me this opportunity because my experience with feast and famine has been like, for everybody, it is always very traumatizing and.
The more you talk about it, the more you listen to others talking about it, you feel that okay, you're not alone in there. So if my words can help someone out there, just one person also, yes. I think my job here would be that. Yeah.
Liam: I think this conversation's going to help a lot of people. And yeah, just to echo what you say, show me a freelancer who says they've never had feast or famine and I'll show you.
Yeah. Alright, have a great rest of your day and we'll talk soon.
Shweta: Thank you. Bye-bye.
